Failing against a Sabre
by A scientists life in Eve on May.04, 2012, under Eve online
One of the things I’ve talked about numerous times on this blog is my ineptitude at PvP, and my lack of actually doing anything (like undocking and trying to PvP) to make things different.
On comms the other night we were talking about what being in 0.0 space meant to people, and what corp members, both current and (hopefully) future might expect from living in 0.0 space.
From this, my comment was that most people would probably expect, and want, to be involved in some PvP activities, whether it was big fleet blobs shooting structures with millions of hit points, or smaller gangs running home defense or simply roaming for the lulz.
It was at this point that I commented that we had funds in our ship replacement wallet, and yet hadn’t really done any PvP as such for quite a while.
Organising our industry and mining operations is undertaken with (generally) precision and planning. Although we operate different production streams across 0.0 (my CEO and some others) and hi/lo-sec (mainly me), it is mostly co-ordinated and mostly planned quite precisely.
PvP, I argued, shouldn’t be that way, unless you’re shooting structures. I volunteered that we should probably be a bit more spontaneous and just decide to undock with a few people and go out until we DIAF (die in a fire) or get bored.
At this point, I was taken quite seriously and a few minutes later we had a few of us in ships heading to the out-gate in a fleet to roam – I was to be scout in my shiney new Crow.
We jumped a couple of systems across and then promptly went to safes as a bigger BC heavy fleet with a Broadsword interdictor and Taranis appeared. They left a few minutes later and we headed to the lo-sec/0.0 choke point.
Before we got there, I jumped through into the penultimate 0.0 system and burned off gate, a Sabre uncloaked and dropped a bubble, which I was already outside of.
I warped to the TCU and then burned off it a little, with the remainder of my gang holding on the in-gate ready to jump in.
The Sabre appeared about 120km off me, so I checked with the FC and then confirmed I was burning towards him (although at an oblique angle to hopefully have a bit of transversal).
And this is where I got everything completely wrong and quickly died before the fleet could get on grid.
My mistake – simple. I was in an interceptor with a Warp Disruptor II and single propulsion fit (MWD not AB) going against a Sabre. I should have anticipated an autocannon fit and the possibility of a scram and set an orbit of around 20km, engaged point and held him in place while the fleet arrived and asploded him, allowing me to (hopefully) catch his pod with my SEBO boosted interceptor.
Instead, I got everything wrong and ended up about 2km from him webbed and scrammed and under fire from 200mm Autocannon II’s and then very quickly in my pod. As he could see my fleet mates arriving in system, he didn’t bubble up to ensure he didn’t trap himself, and so my pod got out. He simply warped off grid and posted “gf” in local.
Thing is, I knew I was dead because I was too eagre to get point, and didn’t pay attention to obvious things like range or my tactical overview (which I had running and had even zoomed out to help me!!!).
I guess the rush of the first PvP engagement overtook all rational thought and a flight in my pod was my reward.
What do I think I should have done (and again, this may still be wrong, so be gentle with the corrective comments)?
- Agree with my FC to engage him (I did this), confirming range to in-gate (I didn’t do that)
- Approach him with manual flying at an oblique angle (I did do this)
- When I get to about 30km select to enter an orbit of 20km
- Overheat point and get him, then when in normal point range kill the heat (overheating was probably optional, given the speed I was moving and that he had decided to engage me)
- Announce “point” on comms and watch for him trying to get me to slingshot
- Get another fleet member to take over point, set my overview to pods only and then get ready to catch the pod
Rationally, this is how I think I should have played it.
Comments?
I do plan to talk through with the FC to see what his thoughts are, but meantime I also think that we need to be more organised in conducting impromptu roams. Sounds confusing? Possibly. What I mean is that I’m going to agree some general fits and try and get some fitted ships in the hanger ready, with the intention that an FC can then ask if people want to go and shoot stuff, and then grab some ships from the corp hanger and just “do it” without all the “I’ve only got this” or “can I have that module” and then 40 minutes later you’re sitting in the station still and somebody now needs to log-off etc.
I’m not saying I’m going to turn into a PvP freak, but I do think that as a 0.0 resident, and a Corp Director, it is something that needs to be encouraged and provided for to ensure the health and growth of the Corp and it’s current and (hopefully) future members.
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My pvp has all been in wspace, but your analysis sounds pretty good. Sabre’s are death to frigs if you get in close. If you are interested I would recommend Azual’s Know Your Enemy posts for common fits and tactics for many ships.
Welcome to pvp, hope you continue to have fun with it!
My 2p. Here’s what you did wrong:
Absolutely nothing!
Eve pvp is all about getting back on the horse after you fall off. Smile at losses, get reimbursed, figure out tactics (which you’ve done) and have another go.
Perhaps even more importantly build the same attitude in your corp. Pvp works best if you’re fairly fearless. (on that note be willing to ship down, if losing a 14m isk interceptor would bother someone they should use a Tech 1 frigate.)
Your tactical analysis is spot on. I fly crows quite a lot and it’s absolutely a 20km ship. You die if you can’t dictate range. Remember you can squeeze more range out of a Warp Disruptor if you overheat it.
Sounds to me you are aware of what went wrong – nothing to add there really.
I would advise you though to maybe jump into a couple of cheap ships and maybe roam around solo – possibly in low-sec with an alt? – and engage lots of targets , simply for practice. I barely remembered to switch on my weapons during my first few engagements, due to the adrenaline rush.
Especially if you want to continue to fill this role as a scout, it will help you to get used to it.
Sabres are pretty nasty ships to engage purely because of the DPS they can pump out. Couple that with the fact that in inties, everything happens so quickly due to the speed of them, one wrong move and it can be all over.
It happens. Now go kill something
Everything come with practice. But really suggest to fit an MSE on your inty next time. It will make you much more survivable and forgiving to mistakes, especially at the start of your inty flying.
Seems like u know where u went wrong.
I think your biggest mistake tho is flying in such expensive ships for more higher-stakes pvp when you dont have tht much experience. there are some who figure it all out pretty quickly, but for guys like you and me who seemingly take it a bit slower, i’d suggest making a alt char or smth and making him join a lowsec/npc null pvp corp/ alliance. RvB, for all its infamy, is a good choice tbh. the kind of situation you were in happens everyday there. and you only lose say a slasher with a long point.