A Scientist's Life in Eve

Building better Worlds part 2

by on Apr.24, 2014, under Eve online

A comment on my last post directed me to this forum post.

Wow, just… wow.

So you make your own station that you own, you ut it up in space that you own, and somehow you can’t control the cost of building things in it?

CCP – you have lost the plot on this one I’m afraid.

is this going to be rolled out to everything then? Will it be impossible to set customs offices to be zero cost? How about repairs? Clones? Repairs?

Seriously, if that’s the industry boosting summer release, you’ve really hurt production in null sec even more than it already is, as to produce there you have more costs already than you do in hi-sec, and now you’re going to take away the only thing that helped level the field.


7 Comments for this entry

  • Jacabon Mere

    The fact you think the indy changes are a nerf to nullsec means you haven’t read and understood all the proposed changes.

    • A scientists life in Eve

      I have read and understood all the changes. With Fozzie confirming that even installations in Outposts will be charged, it just adds additional cost to manufacturing in null sec. I assume that the slot bonus of time will be replaced with a discount to the Concord Builder’s Union charge for making stuff, however that still leaves an uneven playing field as the Outpost will have had two things nerfed (time bonus and potentially zero cost), whereas hi-sec will only have had one thing increased (cost).

      I’m sure I’ve missed other things, as I wrote that post mostly while jet-lagged, so please let me know what I’ve missed when reading the dev blog. Meantime, I’m going back to re-read it again to try and see myself.

      • Ragelle

        This will be a huge buff to nullsec. They are adding cost but what is more important is that highsec will have more cost added. From Jester’s posts on industry and especially his comments it appears that highsec industry will basically get +14% to base cost to just about everything. CCP will obviously tack on a couple percent to null in order to make space for some kind of “bonus” that reduces it.

        If all nullsec competitors are at +14% and nullsec gets +2% then nullsec wins — especially on top of the refining changes which can give null an even greater advantage if a method of local production of local ores can be worked out.

        • A scientists life in Eve

          CCP were clear that the cost would only be around +14% if the system was heavily contested for production. As per the pretty map of production that they produced a while ago which I covered in a previous post, some systems are heavily used, others not so. The result is that hi-sec industrialists will quickly spread out a bit to ensure that they are not paying the 14%, and only the minimum. This already happens in lots of cases when they either use a POS to manufacture, or other stations as the 50 slots in one station are always heavily booked.

          Having read Jester’s comments about industry in null-sec, he has clearly missed the entire crux of the changes, and also has no idea about the cost of logistics both through time and actual ISK. Production in hi-sec will cost more, but if no science and industry activity can be completed at zero installation cost (I’m not including other costs like Sov or POS fuel here), manufacturing in null sec is unlikely to be put onto an even footing. I sincerely hope I’m wrong – really I do. If all CCP do is put 2% as a tax which can be reduced by upgrading the Outpost and hi-sec is always, for example, 5% minimum, then great… fantastic. Are CCP likely to do this in a way that won’t really upset industry players everywhere and, unless they change the corp interface, give CEO’s and Directors even more carpal tunnel damage… based on previous form unfortunately I don’t think they will.

          Only time will tell, and hopefully the next Dev blog will be out soon so all of us Carebears can produce more juicy tears for the trolls (not accusing you of trolling, but I’ve already been trolled once today and expect several more to follow :)

          • suzariel

            Yeah, this one is puzzling to me. I’ve gotta wonder just how robust their simulations are for modeling changes like this. And I’m assuming they DO have some kind of test framework of that nature.

            Maybe they’ll come out during FanFest and clearly articulate what they think the problem is and how these are supposed to solve it, but I’m not holding my breath.

          • Fisty

            Well, at least in nullsec, one human industrialist runs several toons that can easily fill 70 to 80 slots. In even a minor indy corp 200+ slots can easily be utilized by just a very few people.
            That being said, the slot limitations of stations being lifted sounds fairly decent. However, unlike highsec, you’re typically rather limited to your own station in null. You have to build it, pay sov on it, defend it, etc. You already pay out the nose for a station, and that’s before you upgrade it. Introducing a “cost of goods” based tax on nullsec manufacturing will be… well painful at the very least, if not crippling or game ending.
            I don’t know what the end result will be, but, if the added cost of say an Aeon will be roughly 2.3 billion isk (at the 14% cost increase, and that’s only if “demand” remains low) I’m going to imagine a lot of rather upset customers. Not to mention, that’s just the CCP “we’re taking this isk, you like it” tax. The owner of the station can increase it further??!! uhmmmm… pass. I’ll be on the first nope train to fuckthis-ville. again… my last ticket got stolen… apparently it’s a popular place..

  • Dean

    I’d really like a chance to visit with you if possible. I’ve got a group of industrially-minded people that are wanting to explore joining a rental corp and your blog was the first thing that came to mind for me…

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